Comments on: The Sociology of Status Hierarchy, and Why I think Chico State is a Better College than UC Berkeley http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/ A group blog on a wide variety of topics realted to anthropology Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:34:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » Dominance and Subordination, Max Weber Style http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/comment-page-1/#comment-6347 Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » Dominance and Subordination, Max Weber Style Mon, 04 Jul 2011 11:02:47 +0000 http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/#comment-6347 [...] competitors, even if no one else agrees.  Thus, when teaching with Chico State students, I typically point out that they are clearly cooler than UC Berkeley students, an assertion with whom few Chico State students have ever disagreed. (I have not been offered the [...] [...] competitors, even if no one else agrees.  Thus, when teaching with Chico State students, I typically point out that they are clearly cooler than UC Berkeley students, an assertion with whom few Chico State students have ever disagreed. (I have not been offered the [...]

]]> By: Jamela T. http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/comment-page-1/#comment-5501 Jamela T. Fri, 22 Oct 2010 18:26:33 +0000 http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/#comment-5501 After reading Dr. Waters’ commentary on the top public universities, I find a few things unsettling. As it is hard to disagree that small classes and more time in the classroom are good things, especially as a Chico State student, but I also find it hard to agree with many of the over-arching generalizations and conclusions drawn by Dr. Waters. To begin, Dr. Waters (like many others) is critical of the US News and World Report college rankings. While I will not go as far as saying that these ranking are all powerful and without flaw, they do take into consideration many additional factors not mentioned in Dr. Waters’ commentary. For example, graduation rate, publication rate and grant acquisition are important factors for a universities prestige and success. The comparison of these factors biases the results in favor of a research university such as UC Berkeley from the beginning. Chico State, in this case, is being compared to one of the top research institutions in the country when it is not even considered a research-focused institution itself. As an important purpose of universities is to educated individuals (Chico State’s main goal), it cannot be forgotten that universities are also the place where knowledge is created and shared, as W.E.B. Du Bois points out, a university must be the place for “that fine adjustment between real life and the growing knowledge of life”. We cannot evaluate Berkeley solely on it’s teaching of undergraduate students, ignoring the knowledge produced from its research (both graduate and faculty research). In addition, it is not completely accurate to say that it is better for Chico State to take average B high school student and turn them into a college graduate, compared to Berkeley, which doesn’t add much value to already hard working, skilled, top notch high school students. Berkeley’s mission is to prepare most, if not all of its students for the top careers and positions in society. This is not an easy task and the learning curve is much more steep than that at Chico State. Therefore, comparing the universities on the total learning capacity is not accurate unless you believe that the educational objectives and careers Chico State graduates are encouraged to pursue offer more prestige and honor than those of Berkeley grads. Finally, I find it utterly disturbing to read that it is “virtually impossible” for Chico State graduates to get into graduate programs at top tier public universities such as Berkeley. Speaking from my own experience, I have been recruited by top graduate programs at not only public, but also private universities. I also know Chico State graduates who have gone on to be successful graduate students in top ranked (top 25) graduate programs across many different disciplines. The sweeping generalizations made in this commentary are un-validated and do not take into consideration the success of Chico State students across all disciplines beyond sociology. It cannot be argued that a Berkeley grad has a better chance of getting into a Berkeley grad program than an equivalently equipped Chico State student, but a hard working and determined student from any accredited university can find their way into and succeed in any graduate program. I am a proud Chico State student and soon to be graduate, but cannot allow myself to discredit the missions and educational production of the top universities our nation has to offer. After reading Dr. Waters’ commentary on the top public universities, I find a few things unsettling. As it is hard to disagree that small classes and more time in the classroom are good things, especially as a Chico State student, but I also find it hard to agree with many of the over-arching generalizations and conclusions drawn by Dr. Waters. To begin, Dr. Waters (like many others) is critical of the US News and World Report college rankings. While I will not go as far as saying that these ranking are all powerful and without flaw, they do take into consideration many additional factors not mentioned in Dr. Waters’ commentary. For example, graduation rate, publication rate and grant acquisition are important factors for a universities prestige and success. The comparison of these factors biases the results in favor of a research university such as UC Berkeley from the beginning. Chico State, in this case, is being compared to one of the top research institutions in the country when it is not even considered a research-focused institution itself. As an important purpose of universities is to educated individuals (Chico State’s main goal), it cannot be forgotten that universities are also the place where knowledge is created and shared, as W.E.B. Du Bois points out, a university must be the place for “that fine adjustment between real life and the growing knowledge of life”. We cannot evaluate Berkeley solely on it’s teaching of undergraduate students, ignoring the knowledge produced from its research (both graduate and faculty research).

In addition, it is not completely accurate to say that it is better for Chico State to take average B high school student and turn them into a college graduate, compared to Berkeley, which doesn’t add much value to already hard working, skilled, top notch high school students. Berkeley’s mission is to prepare most, if not all of its students for the top careers and positions in society. This is not an easy task and the learning curve is much more steep than that at Chico State. Therefore, comparing the universities on the total learning capacity is not accurate unless you believe that the educational objectives and careers Chico State graduates are encouraged to pursue offer more prestige and honor than those of Berkeley grads.

Finally, I find it utterly disturbing to read that it is “virtually impossible” for Chico State graduates to get into graduate programs at top tier public universities such as Berkeley. Speaking from my own experience, I have been recruited by top graduate programs at not only public, but also private universities. I also know Chico State graduates who have gone on to be successful graduate students in top ranked (top 25) graduate programs across many different disciplines. The sweeping generalizations made in this commentary are un-validated and do not take into consideration the success of Chico State students across all disciplines beyond sociology. It cannot be argued that a Berkeley grad has a better chance of getting into a Berkeley grad program than an equivalently equipped Chico State student, but a hard working and determined student from any accredited university can find their way into and succeed in any graduate program. I am a proud Chico State student and soon to be graduate, but cannot allow myself to discredit the missions and educational production of the top universities our nation has to offer.

]]> By: Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » UCLA loses to USC, but is Still Afraid to Challenge Chico State in College Rankings! http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/comment-page-1/#comment-5417 Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » UCLA loses to USC, but is Still Afraid to Challenge Chico State in College Rankings! Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:22:45 +0000 http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/#comment-5417 [...] lose if it came to any measure of undergraduate education.  After all as I have long asserted, Chico State beats UC Berkeley when it comes to quality of undergraduate teaching; what possible advantage could some university [...] [...] lose if it came to any measure of undergraduate education.  After all as I have long asserted, Chico State beats UC Berkeley when it comes to quality of undergraduate teaching; what possible advantage could some university [...]

]]> By: Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » Working Class, Upper Class, Community Colleges, and Harvard U. http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/comment-page-1/#comment-5378 Ethnography.com » Blog Archive » Working Class, Upper Class, Community Colleges, and Harvard U. Wed, 11 Aug 2010 02:23:30 +0000 http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/#comment-5378 [...] Blog. This blog raises similar issues to what I wrote about in my essay here “The Sociology of Status Hierarchy and Why I Think Chico State is a Better College than UC Berkeley?” Or more to the point, Linkon’s blog asks why such a premium is put on where you learned [...] [...] Blog. This blog raises similar issues to what I wrote about in my essay here “The Sociology of Status Hierarchy and Why I Think Chico State is a Better College than UC Berkeley?” Or more to the point, Linkon’s blog asks why such a premium is put on where you learned [...]

]]> By: Max Smith http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/comment-page-1/#comment-5141 Max Smith Mon, 10 May 2010 04:03:22 +0000 http://www.ethnography.com/2007/11/the-sociology-of-status-hierarchy-and-why-i-think-chico-state-is-a-better-college-than-uc-berkeley/#comment-5141 Tony, You're the man. Max Tony,

You’re the man.

Max

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